Kathleen Fordyce is a copywriter who harnesses the power of storytelling to help health, wellness and creative business owners level up their website copy and marketing so they can grow their business and make an impact in the lives of those they serve. She’s also a book addict, wife, and mom of two living in New York.
What we discuss in this episode:
Resources and Links:
Connect with Lynn on instagram @HappyMamaWellness. Looking for more support with parenting and motherhood? Check out the Happy Mama Wellness Community here!
Kathleen Fordyce is a copywriter who harnesses the power of storytelling to help health, wellness and creative business owners level up their website copy and marketing so they can grow their business and make an impact in the lives of those they serve. She’s also a book addict, wife, and mom of two living in New York.
What we discuss in this episode:
Resources and Links:
Connect with Lynn on instagram @HappyMamaWellness. Looking for more support with parenting and motherhood? Check out the Happy Mama Wellness Community here!
Hey mamas Welcome back. This is our first episode after a short holiday break. And I'd really love for you to meet someone very important to me. Her name is Caitlin rose. Caitlyn is a 36 year old mother of two. She is a stay at home mom who started her own business creating one of a kind art pieces from the shells and sea glass that she finds along the beach near her home in Westerly Rhode Island. She loves to read is a target addict and will spend every moment she can buy the water. One of her favorite musicians is Wil Evans, a local artists something we have in common. But her overall taste of music is very eclectic. She could talk to anyone about anything, but afterwards need some quiet time alone to recharge. She loves being a stay at home mom and wouldn't trade it for the world. But the day to day and mental load of motherhood wears on her. And she quite often feels overwhelmed and under supported. She's afraid to talk about her feelings because she's ashamed of them. She doesn't want people to think that she doesn't love her kids. That is until she met me when she understood that she was not alone and feeling the way that she does that all moms whether they want to admit it or not feel overwhelmed and under supported at least some of the time it was a game changer. She was able to let go of the crazy expectations that she'd put on herself and start creating a new vision of what her life could look like as a mom. One where she embraced the chaos and allowed herself to process through whatever emotions might come up. One where she found joy in the day to day and put more emphasis on mothering rather than the tasks of motherhood. One where she rekindled the fire and energy that she had before she became a mom and brought her girls along for the ride. I feel like I know Caitlin rose inside and out and I should because I made her up. That's right Caitlin Rose is my I see a my ideal client avatar. And I love talking to her off the cuff, creating content for her in IG lives or podcast episodes or coaching calls. But when it comes to sitting down and writing out content that will help her by way of a weekly newsletter, or social media caption. Forget about it. My brain just stops working. It's like I don't even remember the English language. So that's why I was so beyond excited when today's guest Kathleen Fordyce agreed to come talk to us about defining our message and finding our voice and our business so we can write copy like a pro. I can't wait for you to hear all the wisdom Kathleen drops in this Episode Hello and welcome to redefining motherhood, the podcast for Mama printers who really love their kids but are overwhelmed and burnt out from the day to day of motherhood. I'm your host Lynn Turcotte-Schuh sea lion trainers turned mama mentor and founder of The Happy Mama Wellness community. Redefining motherhood is an extension of my one to one and community coaching where I help Mama printers just like you let go of unrealistic expectations so that you can love your life as much as you love your kids. My guest and I are here to inspire, motivate and support you as you juggle motherhood, entrepreneurship and finding your path to being a truly happy mama. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's episode. All right, today we are here with Kathleen Fordyce and she is a copywriter who harnesses the power of storytelling to help health wellness and creative business owners level up their website copy and marketing materials so that they can grow their business and make an impact in the lives of those that they serve. And I mean, who I need this for myself. I brought Kathleen on for me today. So I hope everybody's okay with that. Um, Kathleen also writes for several large health systems in Florida in New York. And she's also a book addict, a wife and a mom of two who lives in New York. So Kathleen, welcome. We're so excited to have you here. Thank you so much. I am so excited to chat with you. I feel like every time we get together, we could just go off and talk for hours. I agree. I agree. Our prep meeting, I was like oh my gosh, we've got like 45 minutes. There's supposed to be like 20 Oh, like that's why we have these so we can come back and chat a little bit more. It's really in in our prep meeting. I always like ask people to share their stories just so I can get to know three can get to know each other. Better. and yours, when you shared it with me both your your origin story of your business and your personal background. I was like, I don't know whether to laugh or cry or do you both at the same time, it was just really empowering. And I would love for you to share that with the audience today, if you don't mind. Sure, absolutely. So I sort of, I think kind of like a lot of moms and women, you know, never really envisioned myself growing up and owning my own business and becoming an entrepreneur, I sort of fell into it. So I got my start. Many moons ago, I think it's about two decades now, as a journalist down in Florida, working at the Miami Herald, I had done a major and studied creative writing, and also print journalism. And then back then the news industry was really taking a hit at the same time that I was getting married, and thinking about my future. And you know, just sort of the hours and things like that it had me sort of re revisiting, you know, where I wanted my career to go. And I ended up landing this writer position at a large healthcare system, a public health care system, working with a PR and marketing team, and the HR team and the senior leaders and the CEO. And I realized, it felt like marketing and that sort of writing really just encompass everything that I love to because I can be very creative. And I love storytelling. As you mentioned, I love books, I love reading. I love interviewing people and getting to write their story. But I also really love like, the analytical tactical sides of things and being super organized and marketing kind of, and marketing and copywriting sort of blended all them together. So then I got pregnant had my first son, and within a few months, he was three months old, my husband was diagnosed with cancer, and he died 18 months later. So here I was young, you know, working this job now a single mom, it took me a few years I was I was just sort of, I think, trying to figure out where where I could go, how I was going to do this, you know, life had definitely it was definitely a curveball for me. I moved back up to New York, worked in another healthcare system. And I was really struggling as I think a lot of moms do with a long commute and managing, you know, parenting and my career. And I decided to take I had a lot of savings. And I was doing some freelancing on the side other people and colleagues I had worked with had always continue to coming to me, asking me for help for things. And it got to the point where I was turning them away. So I was like, I'm going to take one year, I'm going to take one year, before my son starts kindergarten, he was in like the free pre K program online lifting one year to take a breather and figure out what is next for me what I want to do. And that was 10 years ago, and I once I sort of started, you know, back then it wasn't the online business community was not like it is now. But I just got a taste for I loved getting to pick my different projects. And I love the flexibility of how I could manage being a mom, especially a single mom without a commute, etc, and sort of build my two lives together. And so for the past few years, my business has definitely changed a ton at my life. i A few years ago, got remarried, had a second daughter, my son is 14 stitches. He's about to start school, which is crazy, my daughter is in kindergarten. And through that time, like I said, My business has evolved really with my life. And that's where I really became, you know, super passionate about being an entrepreneur and having a business and I still work half of my business still works with large healthcare systems doing work for them, people that I've been working with, for, you know, 1015 years. But then as I was growing my business and figuring out what I wanted my business to be, I started meeting people like you in different groups and different memberships. So I was taking courses and I started, you know, talking and helping people figure out they were struggling with their messaging and writing for their business. And I would just, you know, as friends would have talked them through things and just found such a passion in helping other women, you know, build something like I haven't figured out how to, you know, share their story, I feel like a lot of times when people are struggling with writing for their business or sharing about their business is their core messaging that's not quite there yet, but they haven't kind of narrowed it down and once they get that, right, that builds their confidence and then they can go out and they can build their business. So now my business is kind of like you know, 5050 which is kind of unusual, but I love it that way where I'm still doing that you know marketing work for large healthcare systems doing a lot of writing with doctors, because you know, health care, it's just something that affects us all and getting to share stories in that way and inflammation away I'm really passionate about but at the same time also on the side, you know, helping other it tends to be a lot of female lead, you know, smaller businesses, a lot of moms because I just connect with them and understand the Juggle of how they're trying to build their you know, their specific personalized business that fits with their with their life and I help them to build that through their messaging. I love it so much and I'm sitting here like they know people get the video but I'm just like no writing my head? Yeah. I, I think I call I call us mompreneurs. I heard that term once. And I was like, Oh, that kind of seems fitting. But I feel like you're absolutely right. Like there's this common thread that we all just get, that is the juggle, not necessarily the struggle, but the juggle the juggling of the mental load, and the actual task of both running your business and trying to be a mom at the same time, like it just is, it's like a special, unique little area. And if you're not in it, you don't quite get it. And it goes, you know, across, it's no matter what sort of business whether it's like product based service space in different fields. And I think it's also I think one of the things that we all have in common is we have big goals for our families, but then also have goals for ourselves. And as any mom knows, whether you're running a business or not, it's how to juggle both of those things, both like in your head, and then also tactically in the day to day. Yeah, everything that we need to get done. Exactly, exactly. I know one of the struggles I've had personally as a business owner, throughout my entire I mean, I I've been technically Happy Mama Wellness has been incorporated for like eight years, but it is iterated multiple times, like you said, as I've gone as I've grown as I've gone through my own parenting journey, you know, things have just organically pivoted here and there. And I think I'm finally now coming to what my core messaging is, what my core mission and value is. And even still, I'm having trouble turning that into copy, like turning it into words. Because for me, like my core message, my core values, like a feeling like a place of being, I don't like how do I put that on a page with words with text. And so I would love if you could share just a couple of tips, both for someone that's just starting out. And maybe like has no idea where to even begin. But also for for the Mamapreneur that are more like me were like we've been doing this a while. But we we need to kind of tweak things and pivot a bit. And we're just kind of like, we don't even know how to get there. Maybe they're the same tips, I don't know. But if you could speak to both, that would be amazing. We'll just we'll get to it right out the gate here. 100%. So I think the number like first and foremost, I think we all need to realize that it is going to change, like your messaging because we as people evolve, and then your business can evolve not only as you sort of shift where you want to go or your goals based on the season that you're in, but also the needs of the people that you're working with. And serving, like a great example is just we all just went through the pandemic, like, during that time, what people needed the support, they needed, you know, evolved and changed. So I think no matter what, as a person, you're going to change and as your business goes through time, it's going to evolve and change. So your messaging is going to evolve and change with it. So I think first and foremost, I think whether you're starting out or whether you are embarking on a new season or a quarter or you know, like we're getting back into everybody's getting back into the back to school time, it's a great time, a few times a year, I think it's really important to sort of sit down with a piece of paper you have to like actually write it out. You can type it as well. But I think keeping a document of your your big goals, and then your core values and some things about your brand that are really really important to you. So in in the copywriting space or in the brand's marketing, this is something you know, you hear people talk about brand guide. This is not about all the pretty colors and things like that this is about your messaging guide. So I like to call it something like a brand messaging guide. You can get help from a copywriter to make one or you can start with a simple document yourself. But you should really sit down and hone into you know what your your core values and your core goals are. Now why are the goals important? Because honestly, why are we putting out coffee, you're putting out coffee to help your business achieve their goals and so you have to really, no matter what you're sharing everything you're sharing should be helping you to achieve your goals. That's I mean, otherwise, why are we why are we doing all of this? Yeah, so when you're doing that you have to know exactly what your goals are. And that's going to be based on you know, the season of the year and of your business and the season of your life. How far are you you know, how much time and energy you're trying to put into your business are you trying to grow crazy Are you trying to sustain etcetera and so your copy goal should always always be aligned with your goals. So then your values I think that having your values and you know how you would sort of describe your your business and your your it goes into your your tone of voice how you're going to be talking you're going to be super conversational, you know, and I always say and come back to how you speak, everybody's always worried about how it comes across on the page. But really, the way that your copy is going to connect is when it it feels more, more natural and aligned with your brand's values. And so when you're trying to get that tone just right, I always say start with how you speak. If you're really having a hard time trying to write something, I always tell somebody grabbed your iPhone, do like the voice memo, and try walking and talking it first because really, I feel like sometimes we just get so intimidated when we're coming to a blank page. But we all could sit and talk for hours about something that we want to share. So I think that that's a great tip, if you're really coming in struggling to writing after you've sit down and you've sort of defined your goals, your tone, your values, as a business as a person is to then you know, try not to think so try not to make yourself so crazy thinking that you have to write everything perfectly start by either just taking some sticky notes of certain ideas, or doing some voice memos, and then organizing that and seeing how you can use that at in your content and copy when you're sitting down and working on your website for that copy, which is really, again, critical for you to revisit as a business, whether you're starting out, and it's something that you're going to need to revisit. You know, if you're new in business, I almost say every quarter, just double check in and look at that website, copy. If you are in business, and you're sort of you're trying to just keep consistent it maybe you don't need to maybe only need to look at your website, copy, like once a year, etc, and your brand guy. So really, as you get more settled and seasoned in business, you might not need to look at it as much. But when you're starting out, you want to continually refine and finesse because you'll be learning more as you're working with people as you are getting confidence in your writing. You'll be learning more about yourself. So you want to revisit that to make sure it's it's really dialed in. For your website, copy again, you really need to make sure that you a lot of people want to throw everything on the screen, make sure you're really thinking through what is the point of this? What are my goals, were wanting people to what do people need to know, understand and trust in order for them to continue on this journey with me? So I think that when you really start to narrow things down the writing of the copy, and the content tends to be a little bit less overwhelming. I don't know if I have it totally does I so I've been taking notes. If you saw me looking down, right here my paper. I just wanted to recap because I feel like there were so many little gold nuggets in there. First of all, the voice memo thing. I've stopped. I've heard that multiple times. But for some reason this morning, it is sitting with me differently. Because I if someone says to me, like, Oh, what is your community? Or what? Who do you work with? What is your like, I can like have verbal diarrhea till the cows come home, I can like blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's usually not like fluff. It's usually straight to the point. This is where I'm at. And like sometimes, because it is so my my core messaging and my goals are just so close to my heart. So I quite often when I'm talking about stuff, I'll start to like tear up like I get emotional like I it's in there. But then exactly, we're saying I'll sit down and I'll be like, Okay, it's time to write the copy for my website, or it's time to write this newsletter. And I'm like, Hey, Mama, that that. Like, I don't I don't know, you don't know what this? No, I love I love this. I think a lot of times with creativity, we think that having like no boundaries is super helpful. But really by defining and narrowing it down, it will help you to be more free flow with your writing, I really do. And I always recommend that once you have all of it written down. Every single time you sit down to write for your business, whether you're writing an Instagram caption, writing a page on your website or writing an email, you should have that out and review that because then that's going to keep you again just really focused on on what you're doing what your tone is. And as you do it more and more and more, you might need to review it last but it just sort of keeps you really, really focused. That's why I will I will be doing that by the end of this weekend. It is Thursday today. I will be fine. I know it's been good. I will have a little brand and messaging book for sure. I also just want to again recap what you said because there were so many little things in there but having this branding guide in this messaging guide. Not only will it help keep us on track, but I think sometimes as a Mamapreneur you've got so many things in Your head, it'd become really scattered. And so like, I feel like this is gonna be a really good tool to really put it on paper. And then it can leave your brain for a little bit like, you'll make room for something else, like you have it there. When you go back, like you're saying, you can sit down, you can read it when you're in the space to read it. But I feel like, you don't have to be like, Oh, my gosh, I need to remember that for later or this is a good thing, I need to remember that for later like you have a place to put those things now. So that will be very helpful. And the whole idea of revisiting it at different intervals for different seasons of your business to refine it and evaluate it. I've not ever done that I did a goal sheet. And I'm you know, this is my core messaging and my core values. And even as my business has iterated, I've not sat down and like done the work of redefining. So I'm starting from scratch, because that's brilliant. And I feel like website copy is a whole other like we could have a whole Yeah. I'm just website copy itself. But the tip that I really like that jumped out at me, was this, how you said, what information? Does my the person reading this need to have in order to be on this journey with me? Like, that's what I heard when you were talking? Like what? Get rid of all of the other fluff? Like what information do they need to know in order to come along on this journey. And I think that's going to be really helpful for myself and a lot of other people. So thank you so much for that. That was brilliant, those tips, I have one other tip that sort of goes along with it. And it seems so simple. And it seems so silly. But if I tell you I have been writing, you know, professionally for 20 years, I still use it and help so much when I'm struggling to write something or I have a really big project, I will often just take like a post it note or a simple piece of paper and just bullet out. Okay, what are the key things that need to be said and that need to be in here? And like what's the goal? You know, what is the goal and then bullet out what needs to be in there because, you know, as you're writing, you could go off on so many different tangents. But you know, in order for your copy and your content to be effective, it has to have a goal, and you have to only keep in there what is necessary. You know, there's a lot of talk about how, you know, we all have shorter attention spans, and I don't think it's necessarily that we will read something that's longer. I think it's just that if you're going off on all different tangents, somebody's not really sure where you're going, they might not follow you that whole way. So you really need to keep every piece of copy and content focused on what's your goal, what do you want somebody to do with this? What do you want them to feel? And what are the key things that they need along the way. So like I said, I will take a post it note, I'll put, like my goal. And then like, even if it's a simple email, and so you want somebody to feel inspired or hopeful. And then what are some key points, you want to write in it, and you put it right by your keyboard, and then you're writing and then after you've written it, you go, you know, you read your post note again, and you revise, you go through and you edit and make sure that only what's necessary is in there. And I think if you do that, I think the writing process becomes a little bit easier and a little bit more manageable. I love that so much. We got all these little tips and hacks were getting I love it. Um, so one of the big things that we just was within the tips that you just gave, but I would love if we could go maybe a little bit deeper is this branding and messaging guide this book of defining our goals, defining our value and our messaging, and talking a little bit about branding. So I mean, I don't want you to give away all of your secret sauce here. That's why it's like, we pay you to work with you to help us. But if we could maybe take each of those sections and just talk about how, like the process of defining those things, like when you say goals is that I want to make this much money this quarter, or I want to, you know, put out this many podcasts are like, what is it? Is it overall goals? Is it financial goals? Is it all of the above? And then just kind of take each of those pieces down the line? And maybe define a little bit more for us what, what we would put in each section? Does that make sense? Sure. So I think that right off the bat, like when you're talking about setting your goals, the financial goals, we're going to come out of whatever your goals are, you know how many podcasts you're going to be on, that's a way that you're going to work to actually achieve your goal. So when I'm thinking about your goals, what is the goal of your business? What are you here to do? And what problem are you solving for somebody? And how are you solving it? Getting really, really, really, really specific about it is part of that you also need to know and one part that you should always have an address and everybody I think talks about it at nauseam is who you're serving. Having specific specifics in your copy is what honestly enables it to connect with with multiple people. It's just sort of it seems so backwards. But it's so it's so true, whether you're you know, I know, a famous novelist, who talks about how she writes her books, their best, you know, best sellers worldwide. But she writes them with one person in mind, when you are getting really, really specific, your copy and content will connect with more people. So you want to get really specific about who you're serving, what their problems are, and how you are helping them and how you're doing that uniquely. I know a lot of people get a little bit caught up on the uniqueness. So I always think there's this great business book traction. And it really talks about you know, you don't have to be, you have sort of three things together that make you unique, you know, you don't, it's not necessarily that you are the best at something, it's just that you either have like these, these certain skills, experiences, perspective, etc. And when you have these three key things, and you put them together, that's what makes you unique. But I definitely highly recommend that book, it was a, it was a very great book, it has so many so many great business tidbits in it. So I always think so you want to really focus on again, your specific who you're serving, how you're the problem they have and how you're serving them. So that's going to then you know, sort of reinforce into your they're going to, they're going to help you really set your goals. So let's say, you know, we'll take myself for an example, you know, I help female business owners, small business owners, who are trying to build their business and make it efficient and effective. So this way they can balance it with their family life. And I help them to do that, by getting very clear on their copy and their messaging. So this way, they can market their business. So then, you know, my goals from there could be you know, obviously, my overarching goal is to help you know, female business owners, you know, you can then you know, you can then take that down into how many do I want, you know, help per year, et cetera, and get into your finances. But once you sort of have that clear, that's going to help your copy and messaging to achieve no matter how many people you're trying to reach. Obviously, no matter how many people you're trying to reach, that's gonna more influence, you know, the marketing channels, but that's gonna help you to get to your marketing message. So if I'm trying to touch on those people, you're gonna figure out you know, how you're going to be communicating with them, and how you're gonna be marketing, whether like, let's say, it's a YouTube channel, a podcast, a blog, etc, then you really need to get down to your content and copy pillars, what are the so what are the things that this person needs to know, in order to be inclined to do business with you? So you're gonna, this is where you're really getting into those those trust factors, you know, what information do they need to know? So first and foremost, they need to know that you understand where they are in the problems they're solving. So what are those key problems, and then you're gonna go into how can you address them. So those are that would like, be like my place to sort of start. As part of that you want to go into you know, the tone of your of your brand in your business, you want to literally list out like for me, you know, being authentic and truthful and honest, is, is really, really key being you know, very relatable, and, you know, conversational, and friendly, is really important. Integrity is really important. So you want to like pick, like some of those key things, and literally list out what it means to you, not the definition of integrity, but what it means what it means to you, as a former journalist, like being always truthful and honest, is very important to me. So obviously, I'm not going to be, you know, doing business with somebody who wants to like inflate all their experience, etc. So that's how it then sort of like further informs you or your copy and your content. And I really think you should even drill it down. And not only like the content and the cop, you know, the your content topics that you're going to be talking about in touch in order to help that person feel comfortable and competent doing business with you, but even go down to like words, like common phrases, you know, really drill down what your brand, you know, think of your brand as your, you know, doesn't necessarily have to be you but like, as a person itself, what does it sound like? I hope that helps. I know it can be it can be a little bit of an overwhelming process, especially when you're first starting out. But I always say get something down on paper, and then just revisit it. You know, as you go along. As you do business with more people, you're gonna learn more specifics about what their problems are and what they're struggling with. Like for me, I know that half the time when I get on calls with people, they're like, I open up a Word document. And I just stare there and like, I know what my business is, I know what I want to do, but I have no idea what to write or how to write it. And so I just end up spending an hour like starting and stopping and then deleting it so like I know that that's a real that's a real problem for people. So that again is going to is going to then help me come up with more content and copy that are then going to make them feel like oh my gosh, that's me too. And then be able to help them. Yes. Okay. So that clarifies it so much and that is so helpful. So just to recap again, I like to recap to make sure I get it but also for the listeners right so We need a clearly defined person that we are helping for me, Caitlin Rose is my person I have created a singular person that is like a mission mishmash of mash up of all of the wonderful clients I've had in the past that are like, if I take this from this person and this for this person that's like, I would want to work with this with Caitlin Rose 100 times over for the rest of my life, right? So I literally have a photo of her on my desk, I'm showing it on camera, right? It has her story. It's literally a photo I pulled off line. It's not a real family. Right. But so I know her pain points. I know her struggles. I know. You know what, what she needs, but I also know what she wants. So I can, you know, talk to her about what she wants, but then give her what she needs, like so, so the Goals section is, who is my person that I'm helping? What do they need help with? And how can I give them that help? That's basically like, so it's like the overarching, like mission, sort of, like, why are we in business? It's our it's our business. Why statement? I guess might be a good, good way to reference it. Yeah. Our business wise, David. Awesome. Um, and then I love that you talked about tone, and the branding. Because I think sometimes, especially as new business owners, I think we tried to be what we think a professional business owner supposed to be. And really, we distribute being ourselves, because that's, like, that's what's gonna attract the right people is us just being ourselves, right. So I love that you that you kind of drill down into that, too. So this is super, super helpful. Thank you so much for doing that. I appreciate it, it was kind of off the cuff, we weren't likely on the spot there. So that was great. No, and honestly, I think one of the big things, one of the big reasons why you need to also go back and visit it because like you said, As you work with different people, you realize different things from different you realize why you loved working with that person. And that just sort of, you know, kind of refined your message or you hear from people that this really helps or when you said this, or when you taught me this, or when I read this, this really hit home. And so as time goes on, you'll sort of see really, you know, what, what coffee and content is hitting for you and the people you're serving. And then that's going to help you kind of further refine your brand messaging guide. And I really think if you have this guide, if you're struggling with writing, and you have this guide, you have it written there, and every time you take two minutes to review it before you sit down to open up a page to write your copy, I think it just helps because it just keeps you so much more focused, it's like if you were kind of thinking about, you know, the stuff that you needed, you know, for the week at the grocery store, and then you kind of went versus having a list and walking into the store, you know, the first one, you're kind of all over the place, you're going from here to there, you might do okay, you might get most of the stuff that you need. But you're kind of going to be more scattered, it's gonna be more inefficient, versus if you have a list written out and you're walking into the grocery store, you know, what you need down this aisle, you can get it done faster, you can be you know, you're gonna miss less, and you're just going to be more efficient, effective. So that's why I think the brand messaging guy can really help because it's not going to help if you you know, write it once and stuff it in a closet, and you'll sort of forget it. But you know, if you take it out, and you just review it every single time you're going to write for your business, I think it's just going to make the process of copy. And content creation is so much easier and so much less stressful. And I think we all need that. Oh my gosh, we all for sure. 100 times over. And that grocery store shopping list analogy was brilliant. It was absolutely brilliant. And when I don't have a list, that's when all the impulse buys come in. And that's when I go off on tangents. Like, if he can even take it a step further that analogy, us as people we have so many things that we want to share and we want to talk about and that you'll be trying to throw everything in the kitchen sink into your copy, which then sort of waters it down and makes it less effective. So it just sort of it keeps you a little bit more focused and he keeps each piece of copy and content a little bit more focused. And then the bonus is that then you have more things because then another piece of copy or content you can share something else I think a lot of times people try to throw you know three like three or four things or topics into one piece of copy or content when it can really be broken out and would be more effective if it was you know, more separate. Brilliant. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you forever. You as a human being but on this topic also forever. But believe it or not, we are coming up close to you are our 30 minute mark. So before we run out of time, I would love for you to share where people can connect with you what programs or services you have. Do you have any freebies that we could, you know, get On your mailing list and get these great freebies just share all the good stuff. Sure, so online I'm at Kathleen fordyce.com. So it's Kathleen KTHLE, en Fordyce F as in Frank ord YC e.com. I love hanging out on Instagram. So I'm at cat Ford is that's like my, my favorite place just to kind of share and talk with people and I, you know, love chatting with people in DM. So if anybody if you come on on, please send me a message and let me know, I do have one of my freebies right now is a checklist again, for the same reason, as moms, we're always you know, you're you're running to get the kids off the bus or to drive them here or there. And then in between, then you have to write a piece of content. So I have this checklist that, you know, you sit down, you review your brand message guide, you write what you need to write, and then you sort of quickly go through and make sure that every piece of copy or content sort of like checks on this list, it makes sure that you're staying aligned to your goals and your brand. And you're making every piece of copy or content that you're putting out there as effective as possible. So it's something that I use in my writing life. And before I turn in any sort of copy project, and I recommend that other people use it as well, to help make the whole process just a little bit easier and less stressful. And then you're not like constantly in the back of your mind Did I say everything's and I do this right to that, you know, it just sort of if you have it there and you sort of can check it off, you can then like, let it go and feel relieved that it's done. As for services, I have a few different options I do I do a lot of web copy work with, with small business owners. So I do I will write somebody's copy from, you know, from start to finish. But I also offer an audit One, it helps for people who are just starting out need to get a website up. And you really shouldn't be paying a copywriter to do your whole website package. If you haven't been in business for more than a year, like you need time to, again, to really refine your messaging and your goals. So the audit is great, because I will either audit, you know, copy that's up there, or if you just have a draft and you need some help to sort of go through it to a make sure it's like as effective, you know, as possible, or a lot of people struggle with their about page, they need some help really getting that that's a great smaller package offer. And then I do VIP days where you know, some people come to me and they're like, I'm struggling writing my newsletters, I do full day or half day where we can sit we can meet, we can sort of like work on refining your brand and your event. And then like I can do some writing, I can work with you on helping you know, teaching you about writing or edit some of your stuff with you. But it's really like time where depending on what you need help with, again, sometimes it's an about page, sometimes it's a sales page, sometimes it's like, I want to get a few you know, newsletters done, but I'm really struggling with it. I like that package, because I feel like, you know, people are in so many different places and need different help with their writing. And so that allows me to tailor you know, the day so this way, you're getting exactly what exactly what you need, whether you need me to just go off and write it all for you. Or whether you want me to write some and and sort of help and guide you so this way, then you can do it yourself. Because at the end of the day, we all need to know how to write you know, there's so much content and copy that we need to do on a you know, on a regular basis for our businesses. Nobody can hire a copywriter, you know, to do it all for them. So I think a big part of how I work is not only just helping sometimes you need people just to take it off your plate and do it. But sometimes you need a little bit of help to to get better at it yourself. So I love that process as well. I love that you offer both of those things. Because you're right, sometimes you just are like, I just can can you just do this? Can you just do it for me? Because I can't anymore? And other times you're like, I'm so close, can you just help me tweak it? Like, I'm so close? And I'm so proud that I got this fire? Can you just help me like get over the finish line? So I love that you offer both of those things is brilliant. Before we go and I purposely did not prep you for this because this is a question I asked everybody that gotta just come off the off the cuff here of the God. If you could give one piece of advice to a Mamapreneur that's struggling out there, what would that piece of advice be? It would probably be the same piece of advice that I still need to stay in I probably needed throughout this entire, this entire journey is just sort of like define what your goal is not like go like I want to make this much like really figure out what it is that you want your life to look like. And then kind of like put on the blinders for everything else. Because I think that nowadays, there's so much something that I really struggle with. There's so much help and so many people sharing out there, it's great in a way but in a way can become so overwhelming and it makes me feel like I'm not doing enough or I need to be doing all of this or it just gets me really distracted. So something that I've really been trying to focus on the past few years is like okay, define and like really get clear about what it is that I want for myself, my family, my life and my business and then like, you know, kind of put those blinders on so I don't get distracted. And I can take that and make some progress on that. Yes, it's brilliant. Oh my gosh, Kathleen, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you and appreciate you taking your time today to chat with us. It is always so much fun chatting with you. And I hope that I've offered some tips that help people make you know their writing of their copy and their content just a little bit easier because it can be fun. Hey, Mama, before you go, can I ask a huge favor? If you found this episode valuable? Could you take a quick screenshot and share it on Instagram so that other moms can find it you don't forget to tag me at Happy Mama Wellness, that's happy Ma Ma wellness. Even better. If you have a moment to leave a rating and review it will help me bring you the content that really lights you up. I know how valuable your time is, and I'm honored you spent some of it with me today. If you want even more tools, resources and inspiration, we have a community of mamas that are working together to redefine motherhood by tackling mom guilt overwhelmed burnout and more. Head on over to happy mama wellness.com forward slash community to join the movement. And until next time, Mama stay